Report 1461
Report #1461 Skillset: Skill: None Org: Moondancers Status: Completed Mar 2016 Furies' Decision: Mobs in inventory should not be able to attack the owner. Have just tried testing and cannot replicate - if someone can, please contact Iosai and this will be corrected. Arco's bite will be changed to a psychic bark. Problem: The addition of poteens and their corresponding beasts have also introduced everyone a free entourage that can hit their target for very small damage. These creatures have also been used by keeping them in inventory and afflicting self with disloyalty, or ordering them to attack self, to allow owners immunity to sleep, apart from metawake. That these creatures can be easily killed, cannot be called easily (as in FAECALL) and owners can be forced to pet them may make them unwieldy however that does not diminish the advantage it gives over classes whose primary lock route requires sleep. For a case of three creatures following, that is already twelve seconds of free hitting from owner if target chooses to permanently dispatch these creatures (4s equi per moonfire). Disloyal owners who have them in the inventory present an even harder obstacle as the counters mentioned in the entourage case do not apply. Apart from that, there is also the case of utility creatures/fae (such as the leprechaun) that attack the owner for a small damage when disloyal, which presents an unexpected and unjustified hindrance to sleep users. In a similar light, Arco (the prize fae of the Caoimhe Quest) wakes people up with its bite making it unappealing for most Wiccans to have. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Disallow the ordering of these poteen creatures. Prevent disloyalty from making these creatures attack owner whether as entourage or in inventory. Or convert damage to psychic that does not wake. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Prevent disloyalty from making utility creatures (such as the leprechaun) from attacking owner. Or convert damage to psychic that does not wake. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Change Arco's bite attack to a bark attack that does magic damage of similar quantity but does not wake target. Player Comments: ---on 2/26 @ 02:17 writes: Support for all solutions. ---on 2/26 @ 04:05 writes: Just make them all do psychic damage instead. ---on 2/26 @ 04:30 writes: Raeri's suggestion would be alright. ---on 2/26 @ 05:51 writes: I like the idea of converting to psychic damage for sol. 1 and 2 rather than having awkward exceptions to how afflictions or entourages generally work, I also support sol 3. ---on 2/26 @ 23:21 writes: Solution 1 only, because these poteen creatures serve no actual purpose so removing them from combat entirely is a simple move. Solution 2 appears, to me, to be a valid counter to sleep tactics. It's just how setting yourself ablaze works, and removing it seems more like trying to buff sleep tactics than addressing a balance concern or oversight. No to solution 3, if you don't want to wake people up, don't use Arco. ---on 2/27 @ 03:03 writes: I'm personally leery of sleep tactics. However, poteens being an un-counterable metawake is definitely a balance concern. These pets were not meant to be of any use or have any effect in combat. I support solution 1. ---on 2/27 @ 05:01 writes: I disagree with Celina in comparing this to ablaze. At least on me the ablaze tick is around 1k, that's somewhat sigificant damage so you're at least trading some risk for being re-awakened. If these things are only doing a small amount of damage then there is no risk but the gain is the same, this is even stronger since ablaze will go out in water as well. ---on 2/27 @ 05:52 writes: With regards to solution 2, my main concern was that leprechaun doesn't really attack anyone when ordered, so its a strange and unexpected response that it would attack owner when disloyal. No wiccan would really want to be disloyal, however, in the case when they are (such as when they are nearly being locked up by a sleep user: DW, MD, SD) it presents a way to escape it simply because they are being locked up and not because they prepared it beforehand. As for solution 3, the change was meant to make it more appealing for most MDs and few SDs, as it stands it gets utilized only by Astro MDs and non-sleeper SDs, solution 3 would make it appealing for all and not some (not that this is that major as only one can have it at a time and its a quest fae), it would definitely encourage more to do the quest. ---on 2/27 @ 20:19 writes: I'm not sure how you're getting ablaze ticks of 1k, I'm getting 150ish damage give or take. ---on 2/28 @ 01:23 writes: Taking 180-220 damage from ablaze ticks, current fire resist is at 3. ---on 3/1 @ 01:32 writes: Why can't you gust? That'll get rid of the issue. This isn't really a problem, but I'm not opposed to making them unable to attack. ---on 3/1 @ 11:44 writes: You can gust and they could re-enter, re-order, and hit while you regain balance, or use beast gust and they could do the same but you wouldn't be able to use the beast for anything more. ---on 3/1 @ 20:59 writes: Just make it so you can't use poteen creatures to attack - problem solved. The other issues don't need addressing. Disloyalty should adversely affect wiccans, so I don't think leprechauns really need addressing. Better they attack then steal the owners gold just so they can give it right back? Don't use Arco is you don't want to wake the target ---on 3/1 @ 23:49 writes: Don't really see any need for these (except possibly #1, making poteen creatures unable to attack). Leprechauns should attack the owner when disloyal, because... that is what disloyalty -does-. It makes no sense for it to be psychic. Being attacked by NPCs is supposed to wake you up. If you want to sleeplock a Wiccan, don't use disloyalty on them (they're not going to use it themselves!). Similarly with #3, if you want to sleeplock, don't order Arco to attack. Seems pretty straightforward to me, and doesn't require coding changes or resources. ---on 3/2 @ 13:05 writes: It makes sense for disloyalty to make ents attack the owner when that ent ACTUALLY attacks a person, but of all the utility ents, only the leprechaun (not the mother, nymph and pooka, willowisp, or even your beast) attack the owner. I haven't been specific to make way for cases I don't know, but that probably hasn't helped, for that I'm sorry and this report should be limited to leprechaun as none other has come up. As for Arco, apart from discrepancy of current SD and MD usage, its really off how it would go against Wiccan inclination of sleep hinder (pixie) when all other fae damages don't wake. Saying "don't use Arco for sleep" is probably just suggesting we change the effect to fully utility/rp, which I'm open to and will be thinking about if the solution is rejected. ---on 3/4 @ 16:44 writes: It's weird that leprechauns are the only loyals that do something different when disloyal. It should probably be bugged to check if that's intentional or not. ---on 3/13 @ 05:06 writes: Poteen creatures don't need to be able to attack. Support Solution 1. Leprechauns acting how they do is weird, but not sure if it's necessary to change. ---on 3/13 @ 12:25 writes: So Poteen creatures look to be doing 1-2 damage on me. Not sure if this is the same on other armour types. I'd say, why not just make it so that a certain threshold of damage wakes you up? Like say 30 damage or whatever's high enough to be common among actual battle entourage. ---on 3/13 @ 12:33 writes: The reason I suggest this is just to avoid making weird exceptions. Plus the poteen creatures do have some delightful little attack-lines that'd be a shame to do away with, even if they don't have much effect. Although, I don't really mind solution 1 or 2. ---on 3/13 @ 18:44 writes: Wouldn't mind Rivius' proposal there. ---on 3/14 @ 12:27 writes: That spam is irritating though. Would be really nice to make that not possible to be used in combat or prevent more than 1 poteen attacking per owner or something, if we go with Rivius' suggestion. Of course, that's just a minor pet peeve (regarding the spam), so it's not integral to solving the problem. ---on 3/15 @ 23:56 writes: I think it's just easier to make poteen pets not able to attack player characters. That's much simpler than messing with damage numbers and putting caps on that. It may have further effects that are unanticipated and unwanted where as this directly solves the issue at hand. There's not need to poteen pets to be attacking anyone, no matter how 'cute' the line is. ---on 3/22 @ 10:40 writes: So I'm either insane or a liar, ablaze is now also ticking me in the 150-300 range so either I was making things up or looking at an anomaly in a combat log. I suppose that using ablaze is comparable to this after all. The creatures do seem more powerful still though because it doesn't take a balance to use them in this way where as igniting yourself does, igniting yourself also requires masochism which means you can't do it easily mid-fight although there might be a better way to achieve ablaze that I don't know of. Ablaze is also a trigger for a few skills (like TK pyre) where as disloyalty does not (as far as I know). ---on 3/30 @ 06:11 writes: Again, late to a lot of these reports, and didn't feel like reading the 23 comments. The Poteen pets are neat, but I don't think people thought it would be abused this way, similar to the way scholars/bards were (ab)used by Narsrim, he would go around and seduce them and have an army of scholars/bards to kill people. I don't care what solution, but if Narsrim would've abused it, I think it's worth fixing.